In his latest book,聽,聽Assistant Professor 厂补尘耻别濒别听颁辞濒濒耻聽explores how we can interrupt the repetitions that define us. Drawing upon over聽200 hours聽of ethnographic observations of Systemic couples therapy聽that聽Collu聽undertook in Buenos Aires, Argentina during his PhD,聽and聽Collu鈥檚聽own hypnotherapy sessions, Into the Loop is described by Collu as a personal attempt to make sense of the 鈥渆xistential disorientation鈥� he was experiencing.聽聽
How do we interrupt聽destructive聽loops that damage聽our relationships?聽Although聽Into the Loop聽is not a step-by-step guide on how to break those loops, nor does it pretend to be,聽it does prompt readers聽to explore the ways in which affect theory, psychoanalysis, and anthropology can help us better understand our own existential crises.聽
We spoke to Professor聽Collu聽about the origins of his research,聽his choice to blend the personal with the academic, and聽how the compulsive repetitions in the relationships documented within聽Into the Loop聽mirror his ongoing research into our modern-day compulsive attachments to our screens.聽聽
蚕:听The introduction of聽Into the Loop聽begins in Buenos Aires, Argentina in 2013. Why did you choose to begin the book here, and how did the idea for聽Into the Loop聽come about?聽
A:聽The book opens with a聽scene from a聽therapeutic session I have聽observed聽in Argentina through a one-way mirror.聽It鈥檚聽quite聽an聽intense scene that聽folds聽the reader聽into some of聽the ethnographic complexities of my research鈥攐ne anthropologist聽observing聽a group of therapists聽observing聽a live session of couples therapy through a one-way mirror聽and a closed-circuit television system.聽As I write in the introduction, my angle of arrival to聽Into the Loop, and the question of how to interrupt a loop, or drift aside from it, was deeply personal. As a聽PhD聽student in anthropology, I began reading about cybernetics and systemic couples聽therapy during a period of my life when I was interested in finding a way to improve, reconfigure, or interrupt the loops haunting my own romantic relationship. With a degree of ambitious arrogance, I convinced myself that studying and researching couples聽therapy, instead of just going to couples聽therapy, could help even more鈥� (I know!). So, when I decided to do my research in Buenos Aires, I was floating through聽a foggy聽confusion. I聽didn鈥檛聽know what to do with my life, and Argentina seemed聽like聽an easy enough choice considering my partner鈥檚 family ties there. Drifting through the haze of an existential disorientation, I landed in Argentina tethering myself to an obsessive question: How do you interrupt a loop?聽聽
Argentina, it turns out, was kind of the perfect place where to be lost, to drift through the folds of an open question, to wander in a sleepless crisis mode bouncing from one asado to another at 6 a.m., to stumble upon all sorts of technicians, magicians, and artists of the psyche.聽聽
Argentina is indeed a unique context for the study of psychotherapeutic treatments, being the country with the highest number of therapeutic practitioners per capita in the world. Argentina has long been known to scholars of the psychological disciplines for its exceptional relationship with聽psychoanalysis in particular. For heterogeneous historical reasons, which could be connected to migratory flows as well as the insertion of psychoanalysis into the public health聽system in the 1960s, in Argentina psychoanalytic culture permeates political discourse, everyday conversations, and the media sphere. Especially in Buenos Aires, you could end up talking about psychoanalysis with your taxi driver, or hear a politician use psychoanalytic language to address national issues, or talk to a friend who started聽going to聽psychoanalysis聽because they just got pregnant and don鈥檛 want to pass their traumas on to the baby鈥β犅�
蚕:听You鈥檝e聽included autoethnographic recordings of your own hypnotherapy sessions. Why did you choose to experiment with the form of the book by blending the academic with the personal? What commonalities or challenges did you聽encounter聽throughout the writing process, particularly when it comes to including your own聽personal experiences?聽
A:聽In the聽last chapter, the book turns聽to聽the recordings of my own sessions聽of hypnotherapy, which I underwent when I was doing my research in Argentina.聽In a book about loops and therapeutic transformation, it became impossible for me to separate my own therapeutic experiments from the theoretical frames I聽was聽developing.聽聽
In a sense, it is about sharing one鈥檚 own聽psychic journey聽to foreground the idea that this is not a book offering straightforward聽propositions about how聽to 鈥渂reak the loop,鈥� but it is rather about聽entering an oscillatory movement between the loops we are trapped within, the loops we move away from, the loops we choose,聽and聽the loops we don鈥檛.聽I also聽wanted to show聽the reader that the聽theoretical propositions of the book can have a deep impact聽on聽our personal lives.聽Affect theory, psychoanalysis, and anthropology have helped me get out more than one existential聽funk聽and I want to invite the reader聽to explore this聽possibility.聽聽
蚕:听Into the Loop聽draws upon systems theory, cybernetics, psychoanalysis, affect theory and media studies. How do you engage with these different frameworks in your book?聽
A:聽The only way I could answer this question would be to copy and paste the whole book here!聽Briefly, I could say that in the book I聽am聽driven by questions rather than disciplinary boundaries. I am not particularly interested in rehearsing a social science 鈥渃ritique鈥� of psychotherapy or聽of聽the couple form. I am more excited about using all the conceptual tools I聽have at my disposal鈥攆rom psychoanalysis to literature to聽cybernetic theories of the psyche聽to contemporary psychology鈥攖o fold the reader within the generative movements of聽a聽series聽questions. Like I write at the end of the book, 鈥淚 wrote these pages indexing a constellation of missed encounters with what has聽been lost, I wrote to聽fill the voids in between us, I wrote to reach toward you聽with the fuzzy warmth of a question one asks just before falling asleep.鈥澛�
蚕:听What are some examples of the 鈥榬elational loops鈥� you explore in your book? How do certain psychosocial forces impact these 鈥榬elational聽loops鈥�?聽聽
A:聽Drawing from what the feminist theorist Teresa Brennan calls 鈥渁ffective dumping,鈥� one of the loops I explore in the book is about how couples get stuck within聽an asymmetrical circulation of affective forces.聽One of these聽affective聽circuits,聽involves聽one partner聽recursively聽discharging聽鈥渘egative affects鈥� onto the聽other聽partner, who聽acts as聽the go-to affective sponge聽of the couple.聽This is聽often聽a聽deeply gendered聽process,聽which means that bodies occupying the 鈥渕asculine position鈥� are the ones who tend to be allowed to聽continuously聽discharge their聽negative聽affects聽(like anger)聽onto bodies occupying the 鈥渇eminine position.鈥澛燭he consequences of聽this dynamic, especially over a long period聽of time, can be extremely聽impactful.聽In the book, I analyze the importance of creating alternative affective circuits聽of聽discharge.聽It鈥檚聽more complex than this, but聽this is one of the loops I describe and, being a gendered loop, it is run through and through by psycho-social forces that exceed individual subjectivities.聽聽
蚕:听In Chapter Three, you warn the reader that this chapter, titled, 鈥淐ompulsive Repetitions鈥�,聽will be 鈥渇astidiously obsessive.鈥� How do the compulsive repetitions in the relationships you document in your book mirror your聽ongoing聽research into our modern-day compulsive attachments to our screens? What do you hope readers will discover about themselves and their own obsessive or compulsive repetitions?聽
A:聽In the book I explore聽in聽different ways聽how the romantic dyad can offer insights聽into understanding聽the user-screen dyad. One of the entry points into this, for example, is to consider the parallels between what we聽might understand聽as a toxic, if not abusive, relationship between partners and our relationship with the screen. In both cases, I聽suggest,聽the user/lover compulsively returns to their object of attachment in the name of a promise that is never fully delivered.聽Next time, my love, next time,聽I promise,聽it will be different. People recursively return to these relationships, even though聽they might be聽literally draining聽their vitality, also because they have deep identificatory attachments with the loop itself. We return to聽the screen, or our abusive lover, because, in a sense, we identify with the ways in which our partner (or screen) sees us.聽To let go of the loop might mean to let go聽of聽who (we think)聽we are.聽In the first chapter of the book, I explore in detail the detrimental impact of identifying with an abusive gaze (which is also a deeply racialized and gendered process). Screens or romantic partners鈥攆or聽me聽the ways in which these psychic circuits work is deeply entangled today. I end my chapter on the gaze and identificatory attachment with a聽rather clear聽proposition: 鈥渄iffract abusive gazes, make them explode.鈥澛犅�
蚕:听In recent years,聽we鈥檝e聽seen a rise in the popularity of couples therapy聽represented聽in reality docuseries聽such as Showtime鈥檚 "Couples Therapy" and Netflix鈥檚 2026 British series, "Blue Therapy".聽How do these representations of couples therapy mirror the systemic couples therapy in your book?聽What dialogues are聽facilitated聽through these representations?聽聽聽
A:聽I聽don鈥檛聽know!聽While聽writing聽the book in the past years,聽I decided聽not to聽look into聽these shows. I playfully embraced the idea that one needs to cultivate a certain degree of nonchalant ignorance聽to keep聽their聽writing聽fingers light and聽fresh. Now that the book is out,聽I聽can鈥檛聽wait to聽finally watch聽them!聽聽
蚕:听What is the聽Scrolling Societies Lab, and how does it tie in with your current research project on the聽phenomenological experience of binge-scrolling on social media platforms?聽
A:聽The聽Scrolling Societies Lab (s/Lab) is a聽research space聽part of the聽at 成人VR视频.聽The driving idea聽of the s/Lab聽is聽to bring together聽colleagues from different disciplines as well as聽students to design and develop聽collective research projects addressing聽the psychic life (and impact) of algorithmic feeds.聽Among other things, between聽2022 and 2025 we pursued a multi-modal research project where聽sixty聽college students (19-24 years old)聽allowed us to enter, explore, and get lost in their feed-worlds. Implementing a methodological sequence I call聽feed-analysis,聽we聽used a mix of聽qualitative and quantitative methods鈥攆rom affective computing to free-associative interviews鈥攖o explore the ways in which algorithmic feeds have become sites聽for some sort of 鈥渆xtended psychic processing.鈥澛燭his means that we believe that聽in today鈥檚 scrolling society聽different聽psychic聽processes,聽such as聽dreaming, are being聽progressively聽鈥渙utsourced,鈥� as it were. At the s/Lab we are聽experimenting with multi-modal and interdisciplinary聽methods聽to study this phenomenon.聽聽
蚕:听What鈥檚聽next for you in 2026?聽聽
A:聽In 2026 I聽plan to finish the draft of my second book, tentatively titled聽Dreams I Scroll Through: A Psycho-Political Phenomenology of TikTok.聽The book is a performative re-arrangement of the data I collected at the s/Lab聽and it聽immerses the reader into a聽rather psychedelic聽ride聽following what I call the psychic movements of the feed. This year,聽I am聽also starting a new ethnographic聽project聽amidst different Daoist communities聽in Montreal聽and beyond. I am trying to understand what it means to shift the focus from brain-centric mindfulness approaches to more 鈥渧isceral鈥� practices that privilege the lower abdomen as the core energetic center of the human body聽鈥β爉ore on this soon!聽聽
厂补尘耻别濒别听颁辞濒濒耻聽is an Assistant Professor of Medical and Psychological Anthropology at 成人VR视频. His research examines the entanglement between psychic life, therapeutic practices, and digital devices. His first book,聽Into the Loop: An Ethnography of Compulsive Repetition, came out with Duke University Press this聽year (2026). He is currently completing聽Dreams I Scroll Through, an experimental ethnography immersing the reader in a social media binge-scroll.聽